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Luke Edwards is Chief Sports Writer of The Journal and uses his blog to give a unique and entertaining insight into events at Newcastle United and Sunderland.

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A Game Neither Team Could Afford To Lose

Posted by Luke on November 12, 2007 12:59 PM | 

So the North-East derby ended with honours even and points shared and, from what I can gather, both Sam Allardyce and Roy Keane were fairly happy with that.

As the home - and for prolonged periods - better team, Sunderland will have more reason to feel aggrieved at failing to secure a famous victory, but that has been the story of their season so far. Decent performances, but a lack of killer instinct in front of goal which means they are drawing games they could win and losing games they could draw.

As for Newcastle, well they were forced to battle and scrap for whatever they could get. The performance wasn’t anything special, a number of players had disappointing games, but through it all, I thought they showed commendable spirit and resilience to come away with a point.

It isn’t what United fans go to bed dreaming of at night, but they are qualities which have too often been lacking, particularly away from home, in the past. After the hammering by Pompey and the rubbish served up at Reading, this was a step back in the right direction.

For me, Saturday’s derby was a fantastic occasion. Alright, so the quality of football wasn’t great, but the atmosphere was. There was an edge to every tackle and aerial duel, and there was fear - the fear of losing - and when you have that, you invariably have plenty of drama.

A lot of Newcastle supporters I’ve spoken to - and a good few of you who have left comments here - say they hate the derby because it is too painful to watch, that there is too much at stake for there to be a good game of football and I could see why on Saturday.

I’m sure most Sunderland fans feel exactly the same way, although, as the underdog and the unfashionable neighbours, there is probably more of a sense of having everything to gain and not as much to lose. So yes, I reckon Sunderland enjoy derby days more than Newcastle, even if they haven’t won one in the last seven years!

I might be wrong, but that was just the feeling I got in the build up to and during Saturday’s game. Newcastle expect to win because they believe they are the bigger and better club, so the fear of losing is more unbearable. Sunderland would love to win and hope to win, but they don’t expect to win. That makes a huge difference if you ask me.

Ultimately, though, Saturday’s clash was a game neither manager could afford to lose. Keane is starting to feel the pressure as a manager for the first time because Sunderland are struggling to pick up points. A win would have given the team a massive confidence boost, but they will still feel like moral victors after the weekend and they have stopped a losing run against their despised rivals.

The Black Cats have key players returning from injury and the point on Saturday kept them out of the bottom three. That still amounts
to progress when you consider the disasters from their previous two Premier League campaigns. In other words, at least they’re not Derby!

As for Newcastle, they didn’t play particularly well, but they did not crumble. There appears to be a resilience in the team which they are going to need over the next few weeks.

If Allardyce had lost on Saturday, whether it is right or wrong, justified or not, he would have been under immense pressure. Sam knew as much, he knows he has been assured about his place in the long term planning of the club by chairman Chris Mort, but he has to provide enough evidence on the pitch to show things are not stagnating. He has to have decent results to buy the time he needs to implement his ideas.

I’m not saying that is right or wrong, but it is the reality of the situation and that will always be the case at Newcastle United, whoever the manager is. When Sir Bobby took over, he didn’t manage a top four finish until his third season, but what he did do was offer enough to suggest things were improving, moving them out of the bottom three, FA Cup semi-finals and so on

A draw is a solid result, it was away from home in difficult circumstances and the Magpies had to come from behind to get it. These are positives.

Those sorts of things please a manager even if the actual performance didn’t. Football is a results driven business, but sometimes those on the front line have to look at other things and I guarantee Sam will use the fightback as a building block, a way to bring the team together in an “us against the world� kind of way.

That is what he had at Bolton and it is what his great pal Sir Alex Ferguson has at Manchester United whenever things are going badly. It is a mentality especially useful when you are trying to make a new set of players gel and I suspect we will see more and more of it in the next few weeks with three tough games ahead, Liverpool, Blackburn Rovers and Arsenal.

I’ve read in some quarters that it is the media who are putting Sam under unfair pressure, but from what I gather, it is the supporters who are booing, complaining about team selections, whining on radio phone-ins and leaving ridiculously harsh comments on texts and so on. There are elements of the media who certainly don’t help - eg Sunday newspaper reports that say Mark Hughes is already been lined up to replace Allardyce - but we are only part of the problem that makes managing Newcastle United such an intense job.

I’m sure not every Newcastle supporter would already like to see Sam’s rather large head on a silver platter, but there are some very vocal ones who do.

For those who do, I disagree, although I do have some concerns, like the fact Habib Beye and Jose Enrique cost nearly £9m between them, but the two full backs were deemed not to be good enough to start against Sunderland.

Geremi, the club captain, has also been dropped after a poor start to the season, Alan Smith has done little more than pick up regular bookings - vital clearance from Grant Leadbitter on Saturday mind - and Joey Barton has been poor in his first three games as well.

And regular readers will know I have major misgivings about the style of football away from home which, for me, is simply too negative.

Yet, foreign signings, particularly defenders, take time to adapt to English football. This doesn’t just take a couple of months, it is normally nearer six and is the same whether you are at Arsenal or Manchester United.

As for the midfield, I hope he sticks with Emre (Newcastle only started to threaten going forward on Sat when he got on the ball and started things in the middle of the pitch) and Barton will get stronger and fitter (as long as he isn’t banned for three games as a result of that ugly tackle on Dickson Etuhu) As for Smith, well hopefully he’ll be on the bench again when Nicky Butt returns from suspension!

This rant has gone on for long enough so I’ll leave you with this idea. Sam is not going to be going anywhere anytime soon so get used to it. Let’s all dig in for the winter and see where this team and their manager find themselves in the spring. Just a thought!

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Comments (20)

Ronnie Lambert wrote...

You summed it up well Luke but I can't help wondering what Mike Ashley would have made of the fans' inevitable diatribes aimed at Sam's tactics, not just on the day, but the season so far. Because no doubt, a large number close to him would have grabbed this golden opportunity to voice their ' constructive criticisms '. I wish I'd been in a nearby seat,''SQUARE PEGS SAM!! ROUND HOLES!!ATTACK,ATTACK,ATTACK!! SACK THE BOARD!! SACRE BLEU!!

p.s.Luke, can't preview anymore since this message started appearing. It's got to be your webmaster's fault cos other guests have complained. Ron

Build error in template 'Comment Preview Template': Error in tag: Can't find included template module 'blogroll vertical'

Posted by: Ronnie Lambert  | November 12, 2007 3:02 PM

Ronnie Lambert wrote...

''....AND SWAP VIDUKA FOR KENWYNNE JONES!!''

Posted by: Ronnie Lambert  | November 12, 2007 3:24 PM

Luke Edwards wrote...

Please ignore this message when leaving comments. I'll see if computer bods can fix it in the meantime as it's annoying.

Build error in template 'Comment Preview Template': Error in tag: Can't find included template module 'blogroll vertical'

Posted by: Luke Edwards  | November 12, 2007 3:28 PM

Nick wrote...

Luke, i feel your review is very kind to the team and Sam Allardyce. We were awfull on saturday, again we invited the opposition onto us and had absolutely no width. We are lucky they didnt take at least half of their chances or we could of lost 2or3 nil.

Fair enough the defence is trying to gel together (for gods sake play taylor cb) but our attack is toothless. We just arent making goalscoring chances for the forwards. We need crosses.

I am afraid i was one of those fans shouting for the dismisal of alladyce through the media, as i was on 'your on sky sports' on saturday night. I dont know what is happening to me, but its realy getting me down watching the team at present.

I normally like to see managers given time, but the more time he gets the more we will look like bolton.

Its so annoying when allardyce keeps saying we are in a better position than this time last season. So what...

Note From Luke
I'm not normally kind Nick, I just don't see what will be gained by getting rid of him so early. A agree, it could be a dark few months ahead, particularly with the games they've got coming up, but let's wait and see.

Posted by: Nick  | November 12, 2007 4:17 PM

supporter sth tyneside wrote...

i agree Sam needs more time to get it right. unrest and calling for his head after a few months is not only silly it is very damaging to the cause. that is not to say i am at all happy with the performances. the negativity in the tactics is i think a mistake, we seem to spend more time planning for the opposition than playing to our own strengths, this means we never have the initiative in games. on a more specific point re. the game on saturday when the mackems got their first corner i was screaming at the telly that no one went out to stop the short one,it happened several times in the game and eventually contributed to their goal. this is just careless play and very poor coaching.

Note From Luke
Sam was also screaming at his players to cover the short corner but a distinctly overweight Joey Barton couldn't get back in time!

Posted by: supporter sth tyneside  | November 13, 2007 10:37 AM

True Mag wrote...

You do talk sense sometimes Luke! We're supporters and we should be sticking by the team, not calling for the manager's head on a stick after a few poor results

Sam's tactics are worrying at times, but I still think these could just be early problems in trying to make a new team gel.
If things haven't improved by the Spring then, and only then, can there be any serious talk about the manager being replaced. We have to accept at the moment that we are not a top Premier League team, we are trying to get back to that sort of level. When Sam took over the club was in a complete mess. Because new owners have come in, people seem to think we should automatically be looking to get back into the Champions League. The owners have been concerned with sorting out the debt the mess Shepherd left behind. If you rememeber, they didn't exactly give Sam loads to spend in the transfer market did they? It will be v interesting to see if that changes in January, then we'll get a true indication of whether they think Sam is the right man for the job.

Posted by: True Mag  | November 13, 2007 11:26 AM

Paul Patterson wrote...

I don’t usually call for managers heads early doors either, but I must sympathise with those who do in this case.
Whats the difference with what Ruud Gullit did to Alan Shearer against Sunderland in 1999 and what Allardyce did with the side on Saturday?

Taylor, N’Zogbia, Barton, Milner out of position and top scorer on the bench, very similar to me.

I’ve never liked Allardyce, but in his early days here, he seemed to talk sense, this has turned to absolute drivel, he sold himself to get the job (Like we all do) and he is now being perceived by me to be a tactical idiot (I will not apologise for that comment)

You comment Luke that there appeared to be a ‘fear of losing’ in Newcastle’s style of play, well if this is the case, the man at the top needs to be sacked on the spot- Fear of losing? My word!

You also say we didn’t crumble when we went behind, whilst this is true to some degree, I felt we did fold in on ourselves and you must admit, we were more than lucky to only be 0-1 down at some stage.

Playing players out of position constantly is a cardinal sin in my book and was one of the reasons why I hated the sight of Glenn Roeder in our dugout, Allardyce seems to be Roeder MkII with Science, oh and on the subject of science, wasn’t he supposed to be getting the squad super fit, well we look absolutely buggered in November and whats the bet theres an excuse after our next match because of the International break.

I remember under Sir Bobby Robson, we had a good F.A Cup run, were fighting it out in the second group stage of the Champions League AND finishing Top 4, and whenever we came back off a European adventure, we never lost the next domestic game, tiredness was never mentioned.

What is Allardyce going to do if we qualify for Europe (Won’t happen by the way) more games, journeys abroad etc, the man at times seems to be a walking excuse machine.

I’ve said, jokingly by the way, that if Steve McClaren is sacked next week, (Quite likely) it would be best for all concerned if Allardyce got the job (Which he wanted in the first place) and then Mike Ashley went to Keegan and said, ’Till the end of this season, how about it Kev?’ Second coming and I firmly believe we’d qualify for Europe and have a good cup run, Keegan could ride off into the sunset, his stock ever higher, fans delirious, and a worthy successor may have arisen.

Hears to dreaming.

Paul.

Note From Luke
It is important we all have dreams Paul! Maybe I am being too kind to Allardyce, I don't like direct football and I hated watching Bolton play, but I still feel it's too early to judge. The players out of position thing is interesting, although N'Zogbia at left back and Taylor at right back was done because Beye and Enrique still haven't adapted properly. Barton on the right was the strange one for me. Why not play Geremi - a player he made captain - on the right with Barton alongside Emre. Barton started out as a defensive midfielder so knows what he is doing. Why does Smith always have to play? Is it because Mike Ashley has got a Smith shirt?!

Posted by: Paul Patterson  | November 13, 2007 11:50 AM

Flat Stan wrote...

Sorry but I can't let Paul Patterson's 'bring back Keegan' nonsense pass without comment. First off, it seems that the only people calling for Allardyce's head now are the ones who 'never liked him anyway'. After 12 games during which we have apparently massively under-achieved by getting into the top six then slipping down slightly after 3 without a win, they rush in to say 'yes, we were right all along'. Let's be fair, we've got a new manager, half a dozen new players (mostly foreign), new chairman, new backroom staff and new style of play. It will take time. It's the quick-fix attitude evident in this contribution that has got us into trouble in the past. There is no quick fix! And that's especially true for Newcastle, who are now a mid-table team! Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. I'm not going to give a glowing tribute to Allardyce because, like most fans, I'm not entirely convinced yet. But surely he deserves time to put things in place and settle on his best players and positions. And as for Keegan. First, he's said a hundred times he doesn't want to manage. Second, his record since leaving Newcastle is not exactly glorious. Third, it's not even as if we're in any kind of crisis. Most of all, it's in the past. Leave it! The Keegan-era was a great time but it was more than 10 years ago! The PL has changed, the club has changed. We've got to move forward, not back. I'll show you dozens of clubs who have stuck with their managers through a difficult start and let them build success. How many successful clubs sack a manager after 12 games in search of some kind of golden deity who can instantly propel them into the top 4? This isn't fantasy football. It's the real world.

Posted by: Flat Stan  | November 13, 2007 1:13 PM

James 09 wrote...

Agreed, in the circumstances (both before and during the game) a draw was an ok result. However, Saturday has done very little to lessen fears for our season. Let’s recall that Allardyce was literally two inches (Chopra hitting the bar) away from facing real, if not “immense�, pressure (and justifiably so).

Pre-derby Allardyce stated that: “We have learned all the lessons to learn out of that [the Pompey implosion] and put it behind us.� Although Saturday was not comparable to that match – I think not Mr Allardyce.

Sunderland were clearly better. They craved out numerous scoring opportunities and we didn’t. They dominated in periods and we didn’t. Newcastle’s defence was the same old – too many elementary mistakes and unforced errors resulting in chances and eventually a preventable goal (usually it’s goals). This “repetitive� training Pearson and Allardyce have banged on about seems to have had little effect so far. But it’s not just the defence. There remains a distinct lack of fluency in the midfield, and especially linking play with the front men. The person who has the overwhelming responsibility for team selection and positioning has to bear a substantial degree of culpability for that.

Allardyce’s team selection continues to be quite bizarre and all the more infuriating. Managers who stubbornly pursue the unworkable have been, and will be, eventually found out. The dichotomy of home and away football he seems intent on instituting cannot be the solution to Newcastle’s perennial failings away from SJP.

Supporters are completely justified in voicing significant concern with aspects of the Allardyce regime so far. Despite the above, I agree he needs more time, but along with an increasing number of Geordies, grow increasingly sceptical that Allardyce is the manager to take Newcastle where we deserve to be. Allardyce - we are begging you to prove us wrong.

We now face a whole different class of opposition – NOT Derby, Reading or Sunderland (a return of one point out of nine)– in Liverpool and Arsenal. We’ve struggled to contain the likes of Howard, Lita, and Chopra, and I shudder at the thought of the quality of player (Torres and Fabregas among many others) and team we are yet to face. Newcastle would do well to get 3-5 points out of these next three.

Luke - I reckon this question hasn’t really been asked, and granted it’s difficult, yet needs to be – really what would qualify as progress for Allardyce this season? Surely not a couple of extra points than last term.

Note From Luke
He will probably disagree (by he I mean Sam) but I think he needs a top eight finish to persuade Ashley that enough progress has been made. He might, however, just about escape with a top half of the table finish if there is a cup run to go with it.

Posted by: James 09  | November 13, 2007 1:50 PM

Paul Patterson wrote...

Flat Stan- There is no ‘Bring Back Keegan’ campaign from me, just call it heady surrealism on my part, call it idiocy, call it what you like, it won’t happen and I’d be more than happy to see Sam Allardyce succeed, but (Theres always a but. . ) he’s going to have to pull his finger out and start being honest with us, the fans, who can all see when something just isn’t working.

I’ve said before I never liked Allardyce, but was more than willing to give him a chance (Still am) but he has to give the side a chance, playing four or five people out of position IS NOT giving the side the best possible chance to do it’s best.

A few years back I did a coaching course and I must have missed the lesson where the teacher was telling the group to play players out of position.

I had reservations about Allardyces style of football, but blanked it as ‘Boltons style’ and nothing else, but it has been an imprint on the current Newcastle side that long balls are common-place and the passing non-existent.

Width seems to have gone out of the window (Show me a side in the Premier League that has been successful without width) N’Zogbia and Milner are two very young and pacey wingers, with a hell of a shot on both feet, yet one gets bunged out on the left and the other gets shoved at Left Back, when he’s not a good defender.

We all want what’s best for the club, at this minute Allardyce is not what’s best for the club- The board have stated he’s in their plans long term,- It’s up to him to prove me wrong.

Paul.

Posted by: Paul Patterson  | November 13, 2007 2:47 PM

Ed Hepburn wrote...

who are these idiots asking for allardyce's head? It's only november! Just look at two of the best football clubs - man utd and arsenal respectively - theyve had their bosses for 21 and 11 years and look where they are now. Fergie didn't even do anything much in his first few years.

It's going to take time to turn things around, with new board, management and a lot of new players and there are going to be some purple patches on the way, deal with it. everyone should be getting behind the team, not calling for the managers, sacking managers after 12 games doesn't usually work - charlton last season anyone? spurs? bolton? wigan? leicester where im based aren't exactly setting the championship alight..

Posted by: Ed Hepburn  | November 13, 2007 2:56 PM

Nick wrote...

Before Alladyce destroys this team and eventually gets the sack, will Steven Taylor get a new contract? Or will he be letting our best defender go to one of the clubs who will more than likely be ahead of us in the table come the end of the season?

As for sam alladyces expert CV, will we be busting a gut to get steve coppell next season if he keeps Reading up this year? As his CV will surely be equal to Big sams great acheivments of getting and keeping ugly bolton up.

When will the penny drop with people? Alladyce's poor tactical knowledge has been exposed. He is out of his depth. I just worry that after he leaves it could be too late and we will be stuck with a poor squad of players, after he shifts out all of our decent players out.

Posted by: Nick  | November 13, 2007 4:42 PM

Stuart wrote...

"Newcastle are the bigger and better club" are they Luke? Up until now I'd found your articles reasonably free from bias as one would expect from an Orient supporter. There is nothing to indicate that Newcastle are a bigger club unless you want to count millions wasted in the transfer market.

You might try and justify your comment based on the success of Newcastle United. Remember though that Newcastle have won neither the League or the Cup more recently than Sunderland and if you want to look at history then Sunderlands overall record in terms of winning the top league is superior to Newcastle's.

Which leaves you with a measure of bigger and better that incorporates being there or thereabouts while never winning anything over a period that doesn't go too far back in history. Doesn't sound that great does it.

Basically beauty is in the eye of the beholder and frankly there is little in recent years to admire about Newcastle United as a club other than their magnificent fans. Yes you read right even as a Sunderland fan it is easy to see how good the Geordie fans are. Like fans from Sunderland, Man City and Leeds you only really see how good fans are when they've been tested by the mediocraty served up to them by an under-achieving club.

Aside from this the general mangement and integrity of the club has not stood up well to scrutiny.

Sorry, bit of a ramble but you should know better then getting into the emotive subject of "big" clubs.

Note From Luke
I do know better Stuart which is why, if you read the above article again, I say, Newcastle BELIEVE they are the bigger and better club. I'm not passing comment on it, I've spent years debating with friends and random strangers about what defines a big club, although nationally, I suspect Newcastle are generally seen as the bigger of the two.

Posted by: Stuart  | November 14, 2007 10:33 AM

Sports Betting Man wrote...

I think, as a club, Newcastle need to realise that managers need time in a job. All to often in the past, they have gone far too early and ended up making the club go backwards. For Allardyce to be under pressure so soon into his reign is quite ludicrous in my opinion. OK things need to improve and he's not had the impact some, impatient, fans want so far but, for goodness sake, it's only November. Judge him, if you must, in May - at the earliest I reckon.

Note From Luke
Will you be putting a bet on that? Ha ha, made me smile anyway!

Posted by: Sports Betting Man  | November 14, 2007 11:12 AM

Stuart wrote...

Fair point Luke - memo to self must read more carefully and count to ten before turning red and calling foul!

Posted by: Stuart  | November 14, 2007 12:40 PM

Sports Betting Man wrote...

Ha! maybe, I just think he needs more time to put his stamp on the side. Although not of the Barton variety! A talented player but can he control his temper?

Posted by: Sports Betting Man  | November 14, 2007 3:02 PM

parag wrote...

I used to think that we Newcastle fans were the best in the Land, or the World! But just as it begins to dawn on us, that we are no longer a 'big' club, it is becoming clear to me that we are no longer 'the BEST SUPPORTERS'. All we have become is mindless football fans that want GLORY at all costs, and NOW!
That is not SUPPORT, that is GREED.

In the history of the Premier League, we have seen that Clubs who give their managers time, give them and their players SUPPORT, those clubs do well, make PROGRESS.

You think Arsene Wenger has never had 2 or 3 defeats in quick succession? Or Alex Ferguson? For one reason or another they DID NOT get sacked, and they LEARNT from those mistakes and experiences.

My point is that we need to wake up, and realise that as FANS we have a responsibility to our TEAM. We need to become SUPPORTERS again....and then we can become a BIG CLUB!

HOWAY THE LADS!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: parag  | November 16, 2007 12:10 PM

Anonymous wrote...

Hello Luke,It's a few weeks since I was last prompted to enter this forum. Newcastle United had beaten West Ham, beer was a shilling a pint,the sun was always shining and so on. Then, it all began to fall apart. I live in Southsea, and we, reluctantly, share Portsea Island with the city of Portsmouth. Juxtaposed as we are to those knuckle-dragging inbreds, I had to endure the days that followed the lowering of the flag at "Fortress St. James". Believe me, it's soul-destroying stuff. If Churchill felt bad when he heard news of the sinking of HMS Hood,he ought to have been in my local as, with each passing minute, there came news of yet another defensive howler at Newcastle. Like all Toon supporters, I'm accustomed to disappointment. I've sat through some dismal F.A. Cup Final performances in recent years consoling myself with the thought that at least we got to Wembley,but, nothing can compare with that 1-4 defeat. Unlike the owner of our illustrious club, I don't go about wearing a black and white shirt on match days and I was never more glad of the wisdom of my choice on that occasion. I even considered speaking with a French accent to avoid getting into conversation over the game. After the excitement of the summer, with the new owner,the new manager, new defenders and new optimism, we are back to business as usual. Somehow, I feel that it is always going to be like that and we're just going to have to learn to live with it.

Note From Luke
I hope you're wrong. Surely things have to change at some point. I mean, Wolves and Huddersfield were once the best two teams in the country. Have you seen the latest Ladbrokes advert? The one where Kirsty Gallaghers takes the mickey out of Newcastle. A national joke!
Oh and you didn't leave a name again!?

Posted by: Anonymous  | November 17, 2007 2:03 PM

Tony Brown wrote...

Hello Luke, I'm "Anonymous of Southsea" and there's a good reason for my status. I didn't leave my name because I had trouble posting the message to the site and didn't think it had actually made it. I'm Tony Brown and I live in exile down here. My apologies for the ommission. Now that I see the message got through, you may actually receive some more. Tragically, they all have bits of the first message in them as they were overwritten on the first one as I laboured under the apprehension that it hadn't left my machine. I should drop them in a sandbox if I were you. I do feel that Prozac would look good on the team's shirts, should Northern Rock drop out of the sponsorship stakes. Yous, Tony Brown

Posted by: Tony Brown  | November 23, 2007 8:51 PM

Tony Brown wrote...

Hello Luke,
I wrote, following the Portsmouth defeat that we may just have to become accustomed to mediocrity and learn to live with it. You said that you hoped things would change. I believe that that possibility exists, but,the Liverpool game demonstrated with some emphasis that we aren't just looking at the January transfer window for redemption. It appears to be something deep within the club's psyche, the Power of Negative Thinking. One week we're reading how Cacapa is a superb reader of the game and a bulwark against opposition forwards who anticipates their every move and makes defending look easy. A couple of weeks later he's led, bewildered, from the pitch after quarter of an hour, a shell-shocked basket case. He's not an isolated example. I don't know what is the remedy. I'm just not anticipating a sustained assault on a top five place this season and maybe as far ahead as the next one. My only consolation of the weekend was the Sunderland score. The trouble is, we're capable of emulating them. Yours optimistically, Tony Brown.

Note From Luke
I'm back from holiday and will be giving my thoughts on the events of the last week shortly.

Posted by: Tony Brown  | November 26, 2007 1:08 AM

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