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Luke Edwards is Chief Sports Writer of The Journal and uses his blog to give a unique and entertaining insight into events at Newcastle United and Sunderland.

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The Greatest Strength And The Biggest Weakness

Posted by Luke on November 30, 2007 5:00 PM | 

It is increasingly rare in the modern, public relations constrained age, but every now and again, a footballer speaks and you have to sit up and take notice. Joey Barton’s interview in Saturday’s Journal is one such moment.

Without going into too much detail for fear of ruining the story (you can read it on the Journal Live website from Saturday morning or you can do something revolutionary like actually buy the newspaper) Barton has raised some emotive issues about the future of Newcastle United by warning the club’s fans they are starting to become a hindrance rather than a help.

It wasn’t a rant or a blast - those two favourite phrases of the tabloid press - it was an honest assessment of the situation Newcastle find themselves in where the manager and the players are being openly and widely abused by their own supporters. Barton isn’t looking for excuses, he just wants to see Newcastle have the best chance possible for future success.

You pay your money, you are entitled to your opinion and how to express that opinion, but has the negative atmosphere at St James’s Park become self-defeating? Is the club becoming poisonous because of the bickering and sniping which constantly surrounds it? Are the fans guilty of living in the past and the glory days of the Kevin Keegan years?

Have the players really become scared of playing in front of their own fans? Do big name players no longer want to play for the club as a result of the abuse they are scared of receiving if they make a mistake?

Have some of the big name players who have failed to bring success to the club since the Keegan years really buckled under the pressure of playing in front of a crowd which has become too quick to turn on its own?

Or is this just a case of over-pampered footballers looking for excuses for their own short-comings? Newcastle fans have stuck by their team in more numbers, and for longer, than any other club in the country so why shouldn’t they express their unhappiness at the way things are going this season - and the season before that and the season before that?

The thing with Barton is, he is not one of the players who will buckle under this sort of pressure. he will just roll his sleeves up and try harder, so his argument does carry extra weight. He isn’t talking about himself, he’s sympathising with his teammates and his peers when he described the Newcastle crowd as “vicious.�

Barton feels the club has become stuck in a rut, where impatience means neither players or managers are allowed to settle and long term plans cannot be put into place.

It has long been an opinion of mine that Newcastle’s fans are the club’s greatest strength and their biggest weakness. With their vast numbers they give the club the financial clout to compete with the biggest in the country and when they are behind the team, at home or away, they are, to use a cliche Barton also adopted, a vital 12th man.

They give the players inspiration and encouragement at vital times and they can, when they are at their most vocal and supportive, make the opposition shrivel up and lose.

However, they are also impatient, impatience which leads to frustration and, eventually anger. It is impatience which has built up over almost 40 years without a trophy to celebrate, exacerbated by the various near-misses which have littered the club’s history since those thrilling Keegan years.

They still turn up, to their immense credit, in vast numbers, week after week after week, but have they become too quick to moan, too willing to vent their frustration on those they initially came to support?

Given the standard of recent Newcastle performances, I can’t blame any fan for booing and jeering, but is it helpful during the game itself? At the final whistle, yes, of course, let the wasters know how you feel, but when a player is coming on as a substitute.....

I appreciate this is a difficult subject to tackle and Barton’s comments will annoy some who believe it is up to the manager and players to provide them with inspiration and entertainment on a matchday, not the other way round, but, let me know your thoughts!

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Comments (27)

medan wrote...

Well it is a respectable opinion what Barton is saying coming from a small club like Man City where the expectation is not high I can see why he feels that way. It all depends what the fans believe of thier team, could you imagine Inter Milan, Real, Milan and Barcelona fans what they would do if theirr team played the way Newcastle is playing which I would say is horrible. There are 2 problems here and the fans have realized it very quickly

1] The players that were brought in are really either bench players from big clubs or not really highly skilled players that will bring any throphy to the club. Thus frustration on failure on the transfer market.

2] Most fans hoped big SAM will change the fortunes of the club partly by doing well on transfer market and playing a wining style/tactics of football so far little evidence of that.

Yes you can argue that the fans are a little impatience but I would argue this reaction to what they see day in day out in the field of a Manager that is being a failure so far and players that are playing worse that last year.

I hope the Manager and players turn it around as quickly as possible but players and the manager need to look at themselves honestly instead of making excuses.

Posted by: medan  | November 30, 2007 11:42 PM

medan wrote...

My opinion is, if you can not handle the pressure of big club fans you should not play on a big club simple. If players in Inter Milan, Milan, Man U, Arsenal, Barcelona etc palyed the way our team is playing the fans will step into the field and have a riot. There will be daily riots on the streets, I believe that Newcastle fans have been quite forgiving. The problems are:

1] Fans expected SAM to sign some players that based on skill and experience are capable of playing at the top level. The evidence so far does not look good. Bench players like Germi, Fay and smith, non impressive players like Rozelan and Capacca is what we got. The rest Barton and Viduka overrated would not make the top 5 teams.

2] A Manager that has been very frustrating so far, based on what we have seen does anybody believe he is better than Roeder. Even the games we have won we did not look convincing.

I guess we the fans should be jumping with joy and support the team.

I live In Toronto Canada, we have Big Hockey Club called Maple Leafs have been a huge failure for the last 6 years the fans still support cheer the team creating a culture of failure as been acceptable, as a result managment feel they do not need to fix the problem. Case closed.

Posted by: medan  | December 1, 2007 1:35 AM

Anonymous wrote...

We gave up 2 season tickets this year because of the negative sometimes abusive attitude of so called fans. You can sense bad vibes even before kick off and that was last season not this.We have not regretted our decision . Instead of booing why cant fans get behind the team singing comon United.

Note From Luke
I just wish you'd left your name with this comment....

Posted by: Anonymous  | December 1, 2007 9:00 AM

ROB SMITH wrote...

Barton speaks
What a load of garbish!!!
NUFC fans are scaring star footballers away!!! Kluivert was doon the toon most of the time he supposedly played for the Toon. Whilst Toon fans' expectations might be unrealistic - they are entitled to see their team play like a team - and most some effort. Allardyce for the England - what the netball team??? Face the facts - Allardyce is out of his depth. Barton should shut his mouth and do what he is supposed to do - deliver a high quality performance on the pitch.

Note From Luke
Rob, it is worth nothing that Barton's comments were indicative of the feelings of several other players who have been at the club in recent years, rightly or wrongly, it is certainly an issue which deserves to be heard.

Posted by: ROB SMITH  | December 1, 2007 9:27 AM

James 09 wrote...

Given our financial clout (Newcastle are consistently in the top 20 European clubs financially), size, and most importantly some of the MOST loyal and passionate support (year after barren year we have poured our hearts, time and wallets into our beloved Newcastle United) in world sport, never mind only football, it is simply tragic we haven’t won a trophy since 1969, (a domestic trophy sine 1955).

However…….. Luke – I really do think that like so many others, Barton’s criticism is misplaced. I’m not for a minute saying every Newcastle United fan is patient or has the same views – the comments on these blogs display enough diversity among us. However, the angry reaction to the Allardyce regime from so many of us supporters so far IS NOT ABOUT ACHIEVING INSTANT SUCCESS!!!! That argument and excuse is getting pretty bloody tiring. It’s about the numerous almost disgraceful performances we have been subjected to so far. Why can’t people get that into their thick melons?

Note From Luke
I doubt the defeat at Blackburn has done much to improve your mood James! As I said in an earlyier entry, Sam had better start suggesting he is capable of better things before Christmas otherwise he'll be looking for a new job in the New Year.

Posted by: James 09  | December 1, 2007 9:27 AM

Norm wrote...

So Mr Barton thinks the fans who pay his exhorbitant wages are becoming a hindrance. The same Mr Barton who earn's more in one week than most of us earn in a year. He who thinks we should be patient, fine Mr Barton, how patient should we be? 5 years?, 10 years? How about 50 years waiting for a domestic trophy. The problem is he, and his fellow players are all multi millionaires because of the fans and interviews such as this will do nothing to endear himself to us. What he needs to do is shut up, work hard and start to earn his money on the pitch, which is all we ask.

Note From Luke
I think he was just trying to get the fans behind the team Norm, but I understand what you are saying. He says throughout that he understands their frustration and he did also say, which didn;t make it into the article in The Journal because of word count constraints, that it was up to the players to show the character to come through this and to give the fans something to get excited about.
The main problem with all this is that, after 50 years without a trophy, the burden of history weights heavier and heavier on players, managers, owners, supporters, even journalists like me!

Posted by: Norm  | December 1, 2007 10:14 AM

Paul Patterson wrote...

The big worry is that the National press would twist it and say that Joey Barton is calling Newcastle fans vicious thugs- This has happened!

He should have thought about it before making the remarks, not for the reaction amongst us Toon fans, who, whilst some of us might not agree with him, will not take it as a biblical, religion slurring, reason to have Joey Barton killed- Teddy Bear anyone??

I don’t think I’ve heard many people having a go at the PLAYERS, it’s the manager.

Plus I don’t think the argument of being scared to play in front of our own fans holds water, as if we are so nasty a set of fans to play in front of, our away performances should be brilliant.

I don’t think anyone at the Liverpool game was booing a player at all, not even Steven Carr, it was the decision to bring him on at left back FOR a left back and the decision to switch a left winger FOR a right winger, that incensed the crowd so.

Once again, I hate just turning on the manager, but in this case Allardyce hasn’t helped his own players and the vitriol is mainly directed at him not the players.

I like Joey Barton as a player, and his history of forthright views (Less about his cigars and arguments the better) but his comments about the negative attitude ‘It’s the easiest thing in the world to be negative’ he says, Damn Right it is, I think you better have a word with your manager about that one.

I support him wholeheartedly about the attitude from some fans about the Keegan era, come on you know the one’s, the one’s whole religiously sit down with a nice warm cup of cocoa and stick the 95/96 video in and watch it up until we get to the Liverpool game, turn it off and hope we won the title.

Truth is, if were comparing, Keegan gave his side the best possible chance of winning EVERY game, didn’t go away to a Derby and sit back and hope to ‘nick it 1-0’ every game was a blitzkrieg to the opposition and the amount of possession we used to have was amazing and the shots on target were always consistently high.

This is not happening now- the amount of shots on target against Liverpool were, er. . . Nil. Something of a disgrace, I don’t recall getting beat under Keegan by a cricket score, ever.

Under Allardyce it is only a matter of time, (It should have happened against Liverpool and could quite possibly happen against either Blackburn today or Arsenal on Wednesday) we are sat far too deep, the strikers are sat in tents like campers waiting for a signal in a post apocalyptic world for any sign of life coming their way.

This is not something that can be levelled at the fans, it’s something the fans know all too well, after all we do watch the game in between booing and jeering the managers less than desired actions.

Paul.

Posted by: Paul Patterson  | December 1, 2007 11:00 AM

iain wrote...

all i will say these comments are what turn people to booing and what everyone thinks is wrong with modern day english football.

to call us fans vicious with his trouble laden past has probably not even registered in bartons pea sized brain.

you only have to read what alan smith had to say on the matter about it being down to the players to see that as much as barton likes to have his say, not everyone agrees with him. for smiths shortcomings this season i think most would agree there not his fault, smith is playing as well as he ever has in mf which just shows he aint no mf player.

if fergie couldnt turn him into one i fail to see how sam could, but that just points to another flaw in our managers super-sized over inflated ego, that he is always right and its his way or the highway.

maybe he should ring gullit/souness/dalglish up and ask them how that train of thought faired for them at nufc.

id rather watch poor footballers run themselves ragged than good players not try. maybe thats why roy keane is so popular with the current team he has to pick from.

Posted by: iain  | December 1, 2007 12:37 PM

Edmond Dante wrote...

The Keegan era, when we would destroy teams with brilliant football and expected to win a trophy IS long gone. I accept that. The Robson era, when we would destroy teams with brilliant football and hoped to win a trophy is also long gone. I accept that. As a Newcastle supporter since before I can remember, and a season ticket holder since the time that was the only way you could get in the ground, I am not impatient for silverware. We've won nothing during my lifetime. How on earth can I demand success when I've barely seen it, in terms of trophies in the cabinet. All I ask for now is that the team play good football and try to win games, especially at home. Thanks to “Big� Sam, we don't do either of the two, intentionally. That beggars belief. We did not try to win the game against Liverpool. A home game, with 50,000 people in the stadium, a squad with Martins, Viduka, Emre, Milner and N'Zogbia in it, and we did not even try to beat the opposition. The mood in stands was negative from the first whistle against Liverpool. Is it any coincidence that prior to the game all “Big� Sam could talk about was 'nullifying' the opposition. In a home game. Apart from the dwindling hard core who try to remain positive, our crowd, heck, any crowd, largely just mirrors the team. Last week we were so negative we just sat on the edge of our own box, and waited for Liverpool to score. The team was negative from the outset, and so the supporters were negative. Everyone new what was coming, and no one was surprised when it came. This is not Bolton. We do not consider ourselves plucky underdogs. We do not want to see decent players forced to bludgeon the ball up field for five foot nothing forwards to battle for against six foot plus centre halves. Down that path lies ruin, embarrassment and P45s.

Pick players in their proper positions, pass and move, try to create chances, try to win the game. If the opposition beat us because they are better than us, then so be it. Nobody will be booed then.

(With the possible exception of the bloke with microphone who does that stupid competition at half time.)

Note From Luke
I'm too busy stuffing my face at half time to listen to the guy with the microphone! The negative approach, as I keep saying on this blog, is the thing that really worries me about Big Sam as well Edmond.

Posted by: Edmond Dante  | December 1, 2007 1:45 PM

Jon wrote...

I can't really remark on the fans since I'm so far away, but it is refreshing to see a player speak up like.
Another, equally refreshing thing, was how your article was written Luke. As someone who is currently studying journalism I can easily see how this story could spiral out of control and turn into “Joey Barton hates Geordies.� I thought your article was honestly and responsibly wrriten.
It was much better than the BBC's article.
"Joey Barton has launched a scathing attack on Newcastle fans, branding them "vicious" for the abuse meted out to boss Sam Allardyce and the players.�
On a side note, things could always be worse. Titus Bramble just screwed up allowing a Man City goal within 40 seconds. At least we got rid of him.

Posted by: Jon  | December 1, 2007 3:02 PM

True Mag wrote...

I hate to say it, but Joey has a point as far as I'm concerned. The atmosphere at SJP is negative and has been for a few years now. There is almost a sense that the team is going to under-perform before a ball has been kicked and that people now come to games expecting to get on the backs of the players.
As someone who lived through the dross that was served up in the late 70s and 80s, this isn't what being a Newcastle supporter is all about. The Toon Ultras have tried to get the atmosphere back at SJP but they appear to be fighting a losing battle. Then again, it is from their direction that some of the loudest booing appears to come so make of that what you will.
Having said all this, it is ultimately up to the players to inspire the crowd, entertain us and provide excitement. Big Sam, though, appears to not quite grasp that aspect of football management at Newcastle. I hope he proves us wrong, but until we start to play some good football, this sort of negative atmopshere will continue. Newcastle fans have been extremely patient through the years, but maybe that patience has worn out.

Posted by: True Mag  | December 1, 2007 7:22 PM

Pete wrote...

I have to agree with what Joey is saying, the atmosphere at St James' has since the Keegan era (when expectations were raised) been good when we are good and bad when we are bad. The fans expectations are one of the reasons why we are so inconsistent, when we are playing Pompey/Reading the fans expect to win so are quicker to get on the players backs but when Man Utd or Arsenal on Wed the fans dont expect too much and are therefore more supportive so the players play better. I was watching the Man Utd CL game on wed and after they went 1-0 down all the Man Utd fans got up and started singing 'Utd, Utd etc'. When was the last time that happened at St James'? Our ground has a far better atmosphere and can be far more intimidating for the opposition and inspiring for our players when we are all at full song.

We have got to get behind the players no matter what the score during the game and if they put in a performance like they did against Liverpool we are all well within our rights to have a go at Sam & the players at the final whistle.

Note From Luke
I agree with you Pete from a neutral point of view, unfortunately it gets harder and harder the longer this poor run goes on. People who doubted Sam are having their preconceptions proven at the moment, it needs something to spark a revival. Victory over Arsenal perhaps!?

Posted by: Pete  | December 2, 2007 12:50 AM

James 09 wrote...

Luke - I think my point is well and truly proved by the Blackburn match.
Newcastle United put in an improved performance against Blackburn but still lost, conceding three goals after leading (one of the perennial causes of our plague). Despite this our support at Blackburn was, to quote Allardyce, nothing short of "magnificent". So.....we are just so impatient for instant success aren't we? Nope - that pathetic, mendacious argument goes straight down the nasty public toilet.

Oh and let's not get tragically excited after this improved performance like so many did post-Tottenham. We are in serious trouble.

Pre-Blackburn, Allardyce blows his horn about not winning in four. What he so artfully misses to state is that we've lost three of those four with shocking performances. Our goals came from two oggies and a mis-hit cross. Now, we have 1 point from our last 15 going into the Arsenal match.

The reality is that the Allardyce regime has so far, done virtually nothing to improve Newcastle United. As I say, the same problems continue to haunt and humiliate. We have already conceded 24 goals in 14 Prem matches, and for the overwhelming majority of football minutes, we have been as stale as Souness and Roeder's full season.

Luke - I tentatively agree that he should have until Christmas, yet we have a crucial 12 points on offer until then. If we don't significantly improve and pick up a substantial return from those 12 (Brum, Fulham(a), Derby are 9 of them), I think Allardyce must go. However, a repeat of the Liverpool humiliation against Arsenal - let the final whistle be the end.

Finally, top marks to you Mr Edwards for appreciating just how debilitating and tragic our long, long wait for a bit of silverware is, despite the unique passion and loyalty of so many Newcastle United supporters.

Note From Luke
I think most people just want a good performance against Arsenal, anything else will be a bonus. However, I have a feeling, because of the above and because of the feeling provoked by Barton's comments, that the atmopshere could be extra special on Wed. I hope so, it's going to be a cold night and I could do with something to warm me up as I tap away on my laptop!

Posted by: James 09  | December 2, 2007 1:22 AM

Johnjo wrote...

Sorry Joey, but you need to show us more on the pitch apart from throwing your shirt into the crowd at full time.This negativity is all down to Sam Allardyce.We actually have a strong squad on paper but he continually picks players in their wrong positions, usually to the detriment of any attacking possibilities.Why does Milner never start on the right or Zog left wing? We went to Reading and had no wingers, home to liverpool, no right side whatsoever as Geremi was right back and Smith never once went wide.
Against sunderland we had at least five players out of position, and the two full backs Sam brought in are on the bench!Perhaps we will never see Keegan
football again but going through games with one shot on target (3 times recently)means the best you will ever get is 0-0.Friday night pre match interviews are hardly inspiring...
Reading - must keep a clean sheet
Liverpool - must nullify them
Against Derby he expected us to lose!
Stop spouting sports science Sam and pick a team to play to its strenghts.
4-4-2,Play Milner & Zog wide from the start,switch them round during the game if you need to. Use Owen,Viduka,Martins
Shola,Smith up front.Play one midfield player that might create something,Emre
or Barton alongside Geremi or Butt.
Get your central defence settled and find a place for Taylor.Show some confidence in the two full backs you bought and lets see what we can do! At
least if we attack it takes the pressure off and who knows we might even score ourselves!!
who might create something

Posted by: Johnjo  | December 2, 2007 11:05 AM

JimBoB wrote...

Joey Barton must have knew he was going to ruffle a few of the fans' feathers with his comments. I agree that he wasn't trying to tarr us with any kind of brush but a lot of supporters won't see it like that. He and his team mates get paid umpteen grand a year for playing what, up until now, has been very poor football. However i think he is also entitled to voice his opinions, and there is an element of truth in what he's saying.

I and many others believe it is hugely down to the tactical inefficiency of Allardyce that we are doing so badly at the moment. 1 point out of 15 with Arsenal to play next, and he calls this a blip! Get real Sam, you may be sacked by Christmas!

We have what i think is a decent squad but he keeps playing people out of position. Why dosen't he start Milner and N'Zogbia together? And when he does he plays them on the wrong sides! Also, his substitutions are downright ridiculous at times and i think this has incited most of the hatred directed at him, in particular during the Liverpool game.

In the aftermath of the Blackburn defeat the talk was that "3-1 was a flattering scoreline" and "we were unfortunate". Incorrect. We were prone to more shambolic defending against an unconvincing Rovers side.

I'm hoping one win can turn things around. About this time last season we went nine games without a win then managed to string a few victories together. I doubt it will happen against Arsenal, but i'd love to be proved wrong.

The fans know what team should be out there. It would help greatly if the manager knew that too.

Posted by: JimBoB  | December 2, 2007 2:13 PM

Colin wrote...

All of the anger experienced during the Liverpool game was caused by-

(a) Leaving Milner on the bench in the first place,

(b) The apparent lack of a NUFC gameplan and

(c) The absurd substitutions.

It as nothing to do with the trophy drought. Fans simply want to see the team, including the manager, doing their best to win. Stupid substitutions and apparent lack of a "Plan b" is always going to annoy 50,000 passionate Geordies.

I agree with Barton that the atmosphere will not help. The solution is quite simple:-

(a) Have a game plan (or 2 or 3) before you cross the white line,

(b) Play "positively" - i.e. Don't stand off the opposition, attack, get the second ball, create opportunities by moving when your not on the ball, show that you want the ball

(c) Play people in their best positions

(d) Use substitutions to change the game for the better

I'm all for giving Big Sam the time he needs to get it right, but he needs to start moving in the right direction and improve with each performance.

In the final analysis though, its all about what the team does on the pitch. So Joey, please make you feet do the talking. Lead from the front and inspire the team and the fans.

Posted by: Colin  | December 2, 2007 2:37 PM

Rachel McK wrote...

I heard a rumour that we've been officially renamed to NUHC - Newcastle United Hoofball Club

I've heard the arguements about giving him time yet he's shown he is incapable of getting a very talented squad playing anything resembling football. You don't go to Derby, Reading or Sunderland and hope to draw 0-0... same as you don't play anybody at home and play a damage limitation game. You don't put your best midfielder at LB and your right winger on the left. You also don't leave your top scorer on the bench because Owen HAS to start (apparently) and two little guys can't play together (apparently). You don't play a striker at CM and you don't tell your entire defence that they were third choice signings. You don't publicly slate players who've had a bad game and drop them straight away.

And as for Barton... he needs to play games and show he cares before laying into the fans. It's the way it came across, whether it was intentional or not, and ill advised.

Fat Sam's shown he's either been found out, blagged his way this far or just basically took 10 years to turn bolton into an average Premiership side... something which is not hard to do in a very poor league. His record with Bolton and Newcastle in 2007?

Won: 9 Lost: 12 Drawn: 7

34 points from 84 = Not good enough and rather than blame fans, players and the owner for not giving him money, he needs to take a long hard look at himself and his obvious arrogance. Players running around like headless chickens at blackburn doesn't put his inept tactics and performance in any better of a light.

Note From Luke
I hadn't realised that stat for 2007. I knew Bolton weren't exactly on a great run when he left last season. Maybe the problem is other PL managers have worked out how to counter his style of football?

Posted by: Rachel McK  | December 2, 2007 11:02 PM

Rachel McK wrote...

Ever since the rumours of a KK / Big Al approach from Mike Ashley, we've gone from poor to atrocious.

Wouldn't surprise me if Fat Sam's after a pay off after realising he's on borrowed time.

Note From Luke
I never knew you were a fan of conspiracy theories!

Posted by: Rachel McK  | December 2, 2007 11:12 PM

Nick wrote...

On this debate I won’t be naming any specific players (apart from Joey Barton) or having my get Alladyce out rant, which I still believe needs to happen despite a slight improvement on Saturday.

It sounds like an old cliché but we pay our season tickets and want to watch a team that looks like it is interested and has a chance of winning. Joey Barton (who is definitely not the player who should be making the statements) must understand that the last two performances at home have been absolutely disgusting, we have all commented on the lack of organisation, no pace, no passing, poor subs etc… The same must be said of the all of the away games. A lot of money is spent by the supporters and to see the way the team has been sent out to play it is so dis-heartening.

Joey Barton is right the fans have given certain players and the manager a rough time, some players are rightly circled out for criticism though. The ones that have turned up here over the last few years signed their deals for life and sat back. The players and managers who sign for Newcastle must learn and take into account before joining the club that there is a massive craving for success and why not? Just look at the infrastructure of the club and the support both home and away.

With the fans on side they can be a 12th man and lift the players but the players have to lift the fans in return and in most of the matches this season they haven’t been able to do so. For the players and manager to get the fans on side it only takes the minimum of wingers carrying the ball forward, crosses, high tempo attacks and definitely a few shots on goal.

Fair enough there has to be a long term strategy and the fans have to look at this but that doesn’t mean we should have to put up with the tactics and performances we have witnessed so far.

Note From Luke
As an aside to your comments Nick - and to anyone else out there for that matter - when was the last time you went to SJP and thought the atmosphere was intimidating for the opposition? And no, derbies against Sunderland do not count!

Posted by: Nick  | December 3, 2007 10:22 AM

Nick wrote...

Its certainly not this season Luke.

Do you think the way the team is playing has a lot to do with not getting the supporters behind them as much?

OK we haven’t been brilliant for a while, but imagine Man Utd or Arsenal supporter’s reaction if they had to watch the Allardyce style after years of Fergie and Wenger respectively. How do you think they would react?

Note From Luke
I agree, the football hasn't been inspiring for a while, but I also remember Newcastle fans booing the team off because they failed to beat Wolves at home under Bobby Robson. Then refusing to stay for the tradtional lap of thanks for support. Newcastle finished fifth that season, the previous year they had finished third and the year before that fourth.
There are no supporters in the country who would appreciate the level of performances against Pompey and Liverpool, my point is a wider one about how the atmosphere at SJP has deteriorated through the years. It is something the Toon Ultras have tried to remedy, but as I've said, it is certain sections of the Ultras who boo the loudest! Maybe a little bit of criticism - albeit from a player who has only been at the club for two minutes - will be the spark it needs to fire up again

Posted by: Nick  | December 3, 2007 11:29 AM

Nick wrote...

If we are moving onto a discussion on general support of the team from the stands, it certainly is the case that not as many people chant or cheer as they should.

I sit in the Milburn stand, brilliant seat, at the front very central to the pitch but hardly anyone in around the 50 or so seats sings with me, sometimes I feel as though I shouldn’t sing at all.

Maybe I have chosen the wrong area to sit but come on we should be all singing to most of the songs surely???

Going back to the booing, I must say that the last few performances have warranted it, I was booing after the Liverpool game because I was so disillusioned by it all. I would never leave the ground early even if we were getting battered.

Posted by: Nick  | December 3, 2007 1:05 PM

Rachel McK wrote...

"Maybe the problem is other PL managers have worked out how to counter his style of football? "

You mean his style of hoofball?

It's easy, he plays narrow hoofball. You counter that by playing width which pulls our hoofball team out of position. He has a midfielder at LB, so attack down the right wing. When the keeper or defence gets the ball, it's hoofed up field so therefore as soon as we get in possesion, their defence and midfield drop back quickly so they get the ball straight back. Our attacker is running/jumping backwards whereas the defence is attacking the ball and clearing it to their midfielders.

Not hard to counter really, is it? Hoofball... honestly!

Note From Luke
Carry on talking like that and Big Sam will be offering you a job in his backroom army - i mean staff!

Posted by: Rachel McK  | December 3, 2007 9:32 PM

stephen mcmullen wrote...

Sir,
It is very easy to get benind a successfull football club like Liverpool for example, but us at NUFC have won nothing, repeat nothing, for 51 years,(except for the hearts and undying support of the fans). How would the Liverpool fans react to that? Other so called big clubs have won things Man City, Aston Villa, Everton, even Coventry,Wimbledon,West Ham have won the FA cup, so the events of the last few weeks are 51 years of fustration and failure,so tell the hyped up media and other fans dont lecture us on patience.

Note From Luke
I think everyone has sympathy for Newcastle supporters and, yes, you have been remarkably patient through the years. But does the behaviour of recent seasons suggest that patience is close to breaking point? I agree with you fully that the frustration has built up over several years, however, without sounding flippant, what's another season when you've already waited for so long? Why not wait and see where Sam is going with his "plan" before pushing him out the door?

Posted by: stephen mcmullen  | December 4, 2007 9:47 AM

Ben wrote...

Newcastle fans... patient... more like dillusional! Try the embarrasment of the lowest ever point total in premier legaue and the never ending yo-yo! But less of that...

The NUFC fans have been played by the numerous managers/chairman promises and yet still they believe they are a top club... pehaps it is time to make piece with the fact that ALL of the north east teams are at best mid-table teams. If we accept that, maybe we can start to enjoy the few highlights we do get and not set out sights too high... none of us are going to win anything in the next five years or more, so we should just get used to it. NUFC, SAFC and MFC have all built up our expectations and played on the excepiontal support North East people give them - and not delivered.

With abosultely no disrespect I think it's time we just bite the bullet, and just go on supporting our teams, not winging about how they should be this, that or the other... after all if we wanted glory we would support Man U like everyone else!

Cheers

Note From Luke
A Sunderland fan commenting on Newcastle, that will go down well. Some valid points though if you ask me.

Posted by: Ben  | December 4, 2007 12:48 PM

Nick wrote...

Luke,

Moving back to the manager situation at NUFC, there is obviously mounting pressure on Alladyce, if he was to get sacked in the next month or so do you really think Alan Shearer is a realistic target for the next boss?

As you know I would really like Alladyce removed but there doesn’t seem to be any names lined up apart from Shearer (who lets be honest has no experience at management) to replace him. When other clubs look at sacking there are normally loads of names touted in the press about possible replacements but not this time.

It makes me believe that the national coverage of Alladyces position is just the 'here and now thing to write about' especially with a big live TV game tomorrow night.


Posted by: Nick  | December 4, 2007 2:17 PM

Commulus wrote...

So obnubilate in the ‘undulatus nimbus’ that is the ether-world of the internet, that we become giddy, and have lost all of our powers of comprehension and reason, as the phenomenon of scowlful, and tentacled terrace derision is the order of the day, and without a good word to say, instead, instant analysis and reaction to yet another defeat. A capricious defence which impulsively implodes with no understanding of the game plan… if indeed there is a game plan!

It has become difficult, over the past year, to think of anything that has not gone wrong, or grown worse in the toon. The collapse of things certain and uncertain has brought nil by way of a positive revolution, indeed the events have just dimmed a new era of revision as our leader toasts his toes by the sulphur springs. The queues are as great as ever following on from the stewardship of the shambolic Shepherd, but the voices remain sullen as we go through this season with the reality that we have…not the reality that one wished for!

The king of the Chavs takes his seat in the cheap seats to embark upon his fantasy life alter-ego as a piebald, pie eating, terrace wallah. Forward the revolution and lets see what the future holds! Cry ‘havoc’ and let slip the dogs of war (that’s a euphamism for ‘purse strings’ not that greatly misunderstood humanitarian Joey Barton okay)…etc.

HTL Bigroll Vertical onwards and upwards

Note From Luke
Just remember, only God can judge Joey, He says so himself, although a judge at Manchester Crown Court might also have something to say about his future sometime next year if he is found guilty of assault


Posted by: Commulus  | December 4, 2007 3:19 PM

Steve wrote...

I'm no great fan of Barton but having had time to reflect on what he's saying, he has a very good and valid point. The fans of this club have been on one big downer since the day Bobby Robson was sacked and replaced by Souness. The negativity that stems from those two decisions are still causing the club problems today.

The financial harm done to this club by Souness and his boss may have been eased when Mike Ashley dipped his hand into his pocket but the negative vibes remain.

I'd relish coming to St James' if I was an opposition manager, they know they just have to tip the crowd over the precipice and they've got the points in the bag.

It's just as easy and a lot more enjoyable to create an atmosphere at the match, try it, it might actually make a difference in the way we did pre-Souness.

Sometimes we need to remember the name of the club, we’re supposed to be united.

Posted by: Steve  | December 4, 2007 9:49 PM

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