Anything You Can Do...

Ronnie Lambert wrote...

You're wrong Luke, I love them being in the same league because of the excitement that derbies generate across the region....also cos I don't hate mackems or any other race or tribe. The general banter is only hatred amongst a minority cos loads of us work with or know some mackems. I live in Washington and don't want my windows put out or my washing stolen off the line etc. etc. etc. In my day and before, many geordies would go to Roker park when the toon were away just cos we loved football and it was cheap then...wey it was for me and my mates cos we always jumped the fence anyway, but the derbies in the fifties and sixties were always violent to some extent. I believe in the thirties, after the toon scored first there was a mackem pitch invasion. The police sent on the horses one of which was stabbed, so this is no new phenomenon. As for a rotten tomato whizzing past your bonce, I was gigging in a pub in Jarrow once in my toon top, when a sunlin supporter who looked like a body-builder threw a full can of lager at my head after heckling me and being heckled back. It almost touched my forehead as it sped past and burst onto the wall behind me. Jolly japes eh ?

Note From Luke
Waste of money buying a can and then throwing it at someone if you ask me!

Posted by: Ronnie Lambert  | April 7, 2008 4:02 PM

Commulus wrote...

Quote 'Waste of money buying a can and then throwing it at someone if you ask me!'

It depends...have you heard him sing?

Note From Luke
That's harsh but funny!

Posted by: Commulus  | April 7, 2008 4:56 PM

Paul Patterson wrote...

I agree with Ronnie, but with a different argument.

I have no hatred of Sunderland supporters (In fact I quite pity them) it’s been a long standing joke that the mackems would happily go down if Newcastle went down with them.

The term ‘If I’m going to hell, I wanna take everybody with me’ seems to ring true with those of the ‘Cheesy Chips’ brigade.

And after all why shouldn’t they, they are a club that over the last decade have had less ambition than the man dressed as Goofy in the Disneyland parade, at getting noticed, whilst Newcastle have had their name in lights on many an occasion, only for a mixture of haphazard chairman’s decisions and mis-management to come along and smash them out, very quickly.

It’s great to see that they have a former hero in Niall Quinn at the head of the recent take-over to keep them right, as he is a decent bloke, but really, how can they bring themselves to attract the players they need, want and require to succeed? It’s going to be hard for us, more high profile clubs, so the rest are going to find it VERY difficult indeed.

They always fill their stadium, so you have to have a grudging respect for them, they pay their money and they turn up, so they are entitled to an opinion, something the chemically delusional of Tee-side certainly can not.

The ‘Fans’ down there in Yorkshire who turn up, (Yeah- Everytime Man United, Liverpool, Arsenal or Chelsea are in town) are so hell bent on knocking Newcastle, that they actually forget their own failings and simply deride Newcastle for theirs- Hardly loyal?

The forthcoming derby will for once be an entertaining affair, that I’m sure, with the winner being the side with the most match-winners on show (Newcastle obviously) if they really want to win the game, which Keegan will ensure they don’t slip up there.

This is indeed an exciting time for Newcastle and with Sunderland staying up, should provide spice over the summer, but I’d always bank on Keegan trumping most in the transfer market, he might not do it until Newcastle are better placed further up the league, but when they get there, I’m looking forward to it.

Wheeze key’s are these?. . .

Paul

Posted by: Paul Patterson  | April 7, 2008 5:29 PM

Eric wrote...

As a non-English outsider who choose NUFC as my team after the last World Cup (it was a very "scientific" process and I can't be accused of jumping on a bandwagon, can I?) I like that Sunderland is staying up. I run into the occaisonal mackem (don't understand that term, by the way) and I know we are supposed to be rivals, but it's just hard to get worked up and engage them in some banter when they are "in the minor leagues."

Now, when I wear my NUFC shirt, or when I see a Sunderland kit, there is some fun chatter and it brings the game closer to home. This is necessary as 90% of all Americans who bother to follow the EPL have taken the easy way out and follow one of the top 4. Quite irritating really.

Note From Luke
Well done Eric for deciding there was more to the Premier League than the big four, although you obviously slightly mad to choose to support Newcastle. Most of this lot had no choice. It was either that or be ostracised by their own families!
I did something similar when American Football was big over here in the 80s and decided to support the New York Jets after my brother brought a top back from a holiday for me. Much like Leyton Orient, my football team, they have done very little of note since!
I'll leave someone better qualified than myself to explain the Mackem phrase

Posted by: Eric  | April 7, 2008 6:34 PM

Keith Hutton Africa wrote...

Like you Luke I like to see both sides doing well I am from Birtley but have lived in Africa for 25 years. But I think N'ctle get their motivation from S'land and not the other way round. S'land have been getting better and the town worse until the realisation came after S'land beat Villa that if N'castle lose they go below S'land. The same with the Spurs game that was N'cstles motivation. Sadly Sunderland will eventually overshadow Newcastle because they appear to have a long and medium term plan, they have money and brains behind them where Newcastle believe they are entitled to be a top club and" we can fill the ground so we will be top one day "without ever putting a plan in place to reach this goal. Bringing Keegan back was evidence of the heart ruling the brain and they have been lucky to have turned things around because at one stage they had no idea and no structure and that change was probably down to Hughton not Keegan. Keegan is a glory hunter and will walk away when the going gets tough thats a fact check his record.

Note From Luke
Did you get out of bed on the wrong side this morning Keith? For a team that has just won three on the bounce yours is a rather gloomy picture. I think the new owners do have a long term plan, but only time will tell I suppose

Posted by: Keith Hutton Africa  | April 8, 2008 7:04 AM

David B wrote...

Luke - Anyone forced to endure a match against the Smoggies knows what the real derby match is. I know in our dark moments we want serial relegation for them but even when they were in the Championship many of us used to keep our fingers crossed that we’d get them in the cup.

While I’m on a quick point for Ronnie - I think you underestimate the aim of your average mackem. Are you sure it wasn’t Alex Chamberlain just attempting to drink the can and fumbling it your way at high speed?

Try to remember, was he wearing big gloves and facing the wrong way?

Posted by: David B  | April 8, 2008 9:17 AM

Mike Ashburn wrote...

I've been to Joker Park on days when the Toon were away,and have to admit that I did see some decent games there,although my applause(I NEVER cheered)was always rather muted.
My last visit when the Mags weren't playing there,was a game the Mack's had to win to stay up,they lost 2-0,and apart from 10 minutes of less than rousing support at the beginning of the game,all I heard from the Fulwell lot were anti-NUFC chants and rants.
Needless to say I made my mind up there and then that my hard earned cash would not be going into SAFC coffers if a team with my colours on was not playing them.
Given a reversal of fortunes/locations on that day,I've got no doubt that it would have been a fair proportion of Mags in the Leazes end doing the (black)
catcalling.
I definitely don't want them to finish above us (and the thought of a Mackem victory at SJP,fills me with horror),and if we can stay ahead of them,it will give us at least some bragging rights in this poor season.
I still want them in the Premiership,
although I want them to obviously know their place.
You can't have one without the other.

Note From Luke
You've probably summed it up rather well.

Posted by: Mike Ashburn  | April 8, 2008 11:20 AM

jac mills wrote...

Luke

You have stirred the pot again and out came the philosophers, pundits, prognosticators and purists. And all puckish.

I learned from this column that you are a Londoner. I knew from your writing there was something about you that, well... you know what I mean. Good on ye, mate.

Note From Luke
I think I do Jac. I haven't lived in London for 15 years, I've been moving gradually northwards throughout my life, Ipswich, Sheffield and then Newcastle. I plan to retire and live on an island somewhere off the north of Scotland. Either that, or flip the whole thing on its head and move to Australia

Posted by: jac mills  | April 8, 2008 12:27 PM

Ronnie Lambert wrote...

Ha ha Commulus, I used to like you, though your writing is a tad supercillious for a football blog. Eric, the term mackem comes from the halcyon days of shipbuilding on the Tyne where they were then transferred to Sunderland's river Wear for internal fitting of cabins etc. The words for ' make ' and ' take ' in the Sunderland dialect were ' mak ' and ' tak ', hence they'd say about our ships, " They mak 'em and we tak 'em. " We used to call them Mackems and Tackems which was abbreviated to Mackems. Keith Hutton's been on the African Ganja by the sound of him today. Time will prove you very wrong bonny lad, Mike Ashley had a non-starter with Shepherd's last lunge of the knife in appointing Sam the Sham and his Pharoahs which killed the season, and left SuperKev a tangled mess of mentally deranged international players to heal from severe brainwashing. Our double billionaire has only just started to feel the huge Geordie rush that KK and the greatest fans on earth will inject into his senses. I do personally like Quinny and Kean and Paddies perse, but they are and always will be in the shadow of NEWCASTLE the city, the club and the fans 'til kingdom come. Sunderland are below us in the league, in passion, attendance, culturally and gegraphically. Even Tyne-Tees television omits them from it's broadcasting description. BBC Radio Newcastle, BBC Radio Sunderl... doesn't exist. I hope you don't go walking in the bush in your present state of mind, you might get eaten by a zebra, a black and white striped zebra.

Posted by: Ronnie Lambert  | April 8, 2008 12:40 PM

andy wrote...

i have posted before that i think sunderland under Quinn and Keane have the right sort of people at the helm - real football people. I am unconvinced by Ashley -'lets get naked and have a party' and Mort and Wise - who i believe to be carpetbaggers.

There is no doubt that KK has his heart in the right place but i still believe in the old adage - never go back.

Time will tell but i think to a degree safc fans have more logical reasons to believe in the the medium term future. I think for nufc it is a time for 'faith' in the 'messiah'.

The derby couldbe a big pointer to the forseeable future.

Note From Luke
Indeed it could Andy...

Posted by: andy  | April 8, 2008 12:47 PM

Laernu wrote...

I'm a fairly young Newcastle fan who only really started properly following football towards the end of Bobby Robsons era, at this time Sunderland were mostly in the championship so we never really played them. The only 2 times I remember the mackems in the premiership (before this season) were the 2 seasons they broke the record for lowest points and got relegated - as such i've never felt any hatred or rivalry with them, and have never really understood why the older guys like to mock them so much!

It seems to me that the derby games don't means as much any more - or least not to the younger generation of fans

If anything, the team I most enjoy a win over is Liverpool - as my earliest memories were of the time when we were competing with them for the champions league (those were the days..) and my best mate was a glory seeking liverpool fan!

personally, i would like to see Sunderland & Newcastle competing around the same area of the league ( the top end!) and build some real rivalry again on the pitch..

Note From Luke
Yep, it's always good beating Liverpool. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to happen very often! It;s interesting what you say about the derby though and I wonder if a lot of younger fans feel that way. The longer the two teams are in the same division, however, the fiercer it will get I'd imagine. A little bit of bitterness and resentment needs to fester first

Posted by: Laernu  | April 8, 2008 1:22 PM

Snapper wrote...

Andy are you sure you are the correct side of the Tyne and have not escaped from the Wear. Non football people, let me see, if Abramovitch had picked us before Chelsea, or the Thia's had before Man City, would you have said the same. Shepherd was a football person look at the mess he got us into. Sir John Hall was never known as a football person, but look at the job he did. So really it dos'nt matter as long as they have brains.

Posted by: Snapper  | April 8, 2008 1:42 PM

Jim wrote...

Keith from Africa, our "Leaders" have not brains, I bet Ashley supports your views as he counts his millions, as regards Keegan, he was 5 years at St James, 4 years at City, he went to the England job, and after a defeat by Germany, resigned, saying "The job is beyond me", a comment I think that was a brave and honest assesment. Its a pity more England managers i.e McClaren, and Sven had not had the same courage, perhaps then we would have qualified for Euro 08. Dont ever please condem somebody because they are honest.

Posted by: Jim  | April 8, 2008 1:57 PM

Bill wrote...

I live in Mackemland - somebody sensible has to - but I am a follower of the one true religion. I do not want SAFC to be relegated because:

1) we are guaranteed a minimum of 4 points per season out of them
2) we can taunt them about their funny accent
3) we can remind their manager about his difference of opinion with Alan Shearer
4) they always end up below us in the league
5) you are right - the banter is better when they are in the same league as us
6) as much as some mags might not like it they have supporters like us who care about their team - to them, like us, it much more than a game but to do with personal pride, cultural identity, etc.

And after having said all that I hope we stuff the anus out of them at the next home game!

Note From Luke
An interesting turn of phrase that Bill at the end but I think I know what you mean!

Posted by: Bill  | April 8, 2008 2:39 PM

andy wrote...

For Snapper

Im sorry i do not like abramovich or the Thai either. I am not a fan who thinks anyone is acceptable to own a football club -just because they have deep pockets. As an aside there is no evidence that Ashley has any intention of putting money in the way Abramovich has.

Just the same way i do not accept any footballer if he can kick the ball well enough - cue J Barton esq.

I think your claim that Shepherd was a football person is quite simply ridiculous!

Posted by: andy  | April 8, 2008 3:05 PM

Commulus wrote...

Ronnie,

Sorry, I didn't really mean it, and by the way is that your rendition of the ‘Blaydon Races’ that the team runs out to at SJP?

Posted by: Commulus  | April 8, 2008 3:06 PM

Micheal the piper wrote...

My brother in law is a Sunderland supporter and out of the kindness of his own blessed heart when he came over from Canada and I from Denmark he bought 4 tickets for the stadium of light so that my son, my nephew my brother in law and myself could watch Sunderland play Wigan. I have to admit the atmosphere was nearly as good as st James Park. However we were being hammered by Aston Villa that day and to hear the mackems all around celebrating in joy as every Villa goal went in was both sureal and heart sinking. I did not want Sunderland to win that day and held my head in my hands every time they scored (pretending to hide my tears of joy of course).

A great family day out all the same and I have bought tickets for the Newcastle v Chelsea game when my brother in law comes back just to return the compliment!

I had a dream ...that one day newcastle and Sunderland are competing for the title , with newcastle winning every time naturally..I had a dream...

Note From Luke
I suspect it will remain a dream for the rest of your life, but you never know!

Posted by: Micheal the piper  | April 8, 2008 4:26 PM

Teddy wrote...

The rubbish that comes out of Newcastle fans never ceases to amaze normal people. Most likely they are delusional because they drink too much of that terrible beer. Yes they have won three games in a row (after going 14 without winning any) and they think they are world beaters! Sid James would certainly be proud that the ground that bears his name is the world’s largest venue for in-house comedians, on and off the pitch. And, talking about funny, have you seen Keegan’s hair! Nevertheless it is good fun to have the Mugpies, and Boro in the same league as Sunderland. Let’s see which team it is that is going for 5 wins in a row in about 10 days time.

Note From Luke
Fight, fight, fight

Posted by: Teddy  | April 9, 2008 4:14 AM

Snapper wrote...

Andy why is it ridiculous to say Shepherd was football man? He supported and attended matches at St James' from the age of 11, was in the group that overthrew the McKeag regime, and was Hall's right hand man during the whole takeover process. I think Sir, it is you who is being ridiculous.

Note From Luke
You won't find much sympathy for Shepherd from me Snapper. The guy took plenty out of the club in terms of personal wealth, built up huge debts, debts which were in danger of crippling the club had Ashley not arrived when he did. He intefered in transfers and, for a football man, made some huge footballing errors of judgement which have held the club back. He did do some good things, expanded the ground, appointed Bobby, borrowed money to support managers in the transfer market - don't be kidded into ever thinking it was his money - and he was a fan. But I don't care if the guy went to SJP when he was still in nappies, he was not a good chairman and he was, on balance, not good for NUFC - in my opinion of course

Posted by: Snapper  | April 9, 2008 8:35 AM

Dave C wrote...

I too am a Mag who does not hate or resent the mackems, I don't want to see them relegated and in all honesty I think they will make a fairly decent mid-table also ran side like blackburn, Everton etc, etc and indeed NUFC have been in the recent past.

I obviously believe that NUFC are a bigger and better football club than SAFC, and to be honest I believe we always will be. The comments being made here by some of the mackems about no long term plan were true up until MA and his people took over, however, this is clearly no longer the case and wishing it still were by deluded mackems who are downright petrified by the prospect of NUFC once again becoming the dominant force in NE football will not make it so.

Accept it, things are changing for the better at the toon, we will continue to get better, we will be challenging for european places again in the near future we will most likely beat you at SJP week after next and we will remain the top NE team for the forseeable future.

Posted by: Dave C  | April 9, 2008 12:33 PM

Ronnie Lambert wrote...

No probs Commulus, I've had worse things said but not usually from geordies. I like you even more now for your humility, which in my book is the greatest attribute in a man. NO EVIDENCE ANDY??? He's spent at least 133 million in initial purchase of club, paid off at least 40 million of hidden debts and whatever he reluctantly gave to Shephards ' trojan horse ' Sam. Maybe Luke has the true figures at hand. I read recently that his original plan was to spend 400 million in getting Newcastle to the top, or win the champions league whatever. Now you either didn't know any of this or you're a mackem plant, with your big wooden spoon....perhaps you're just a daft knacker who wants to see his name in print, but for goodness sake Andy, check out your facts before opening your gob.

Note From Luke
And what are facts again? Sometimes I forget. We still don't know how good Ashley is going to be for the club. He is a businessman, first and foremost, so he is in it to make money. The question how much money is he willing to invest to bring the success which will bring in the money?

Posted by: Ronnie Lambert  | April 9, 2008 12:46 PM

jac mills wrote...

Luke

Take the Australia option for your retirement, my friend. And retire early. Very early!! There are some fine, progressive newspapers in Oz that would welcome a young fella who tried north, then went south. Shows initiative - and common sense. They are sports-crazy in Oz, so it is a large part of life. And you could meet a former player from Sunderland there. Billy Walsh (Sunderland centre half 1946-53) moved there and may still be alive and kicking, unless a Great White got him. Have a word with Viduka and Dwight Yorke. I am certain they would echo those sentiments about Oz. But maybe your thoughts today are all of Sri Lanka, as they should be.

Note From Luke
I travelled around Australia for six months and loved it Jac.

Posted by: jac mills  | April 9, 2008 1:09 PM

Fredrich Nietzsche wrote...

No, I think it's great to see Sunderland and Boro' stay up. That 12 points in the bag for next season already! Champions league here we come!

Posted by: Fredrich Nietzsche  | April 9, 2008 1:54 PM

Snapper wrote...

Luke, I never said that Shepherd was a GOOD chairman, I merely pointed out to Andy that the tag "Football person" did not mean a jot, further substantiating my view that Ashley and Mort will make a better job of it than the previous "football person".

Note From Luke
Fair enough, I stand corrected. I did enjoy my rant about Shepherd though. Maybe I was just looking for an excuse

Posted by: Snapper  | April 11, 2008 9:19 AM

Mike Fraser wrote...

Hi Luke

I've always thought that its good for the entire area to have the three clubs in the top league, better for business, generates interest and more local games and of course newcastle gain some easy points..

Cheers
Mike

Posted by: Mike Fraser  | April 11, 2008 12:54 PM

wighty73 wrote...

when will you arrogant maggie dreamers get off your delusional highhorses and see the real world.your no longer a big club and its years since you were (the fiftys)as for atmosphere at sid james park theres more on the moon. mackems officially loudest in country, eat your heart out !

Posted by: wighty73  | April 12, 2008 9:17 AM